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# Episode 75: Citizen Development at Scale With Amtrak's Michael McCullough
- URL: https://www.philsimon.com/podcast/episode-75-michael-mccullough/
- Published: 2022-12-12T16:50:38.000Z
- Updated: 2025-07-01T21:13:02.000Z
- Description: An interesting chat with a guy doing fascinating things in the low-code world.
- Author: Phil Simon
- Tags: Podcast, WFH

[Michael McCullough](https://www.linkedin.com/in/mcculloughmd/?ref=philsimon.com) joins me today. He’s the Citizen Development Business Architect at Amtrak. We talk about low-code, training, governance, Microsoft's Power Platform, and the challenges of running one of the world’s largest citizen development departments.